Talk:Domestic terrorism/Archive 1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Definition

Also, one could label as "Domestic Terrorism" any act committed by anyone towards innocent and respectable citizens of our Country, with the sole purpose of destroying the socio-economic existance of those being attacked, only to benefit the agressor perpetrator in his quest of wealth, professional and social status. A perfect example could be that of an unethical attorney who buys out the legal outcome of a legal battle through even more unethical Judges, when knowingly they both support the guilty wrongdoer. -[User:64.91.212.xxx|64.91.212.xxx]] 02:02, 30 December 2001

I think that this is making the definition of "terrorism" way too broad, diluting the term so much that it loses all meaning; by this definition practically _any_ criminal is a terrorist. --Bryan Derksen 09:47, 31 March 2002

"Terrorism" vs. Politically motivated violence

The inclusion of Boston Tea Party as a historical example serves to illustrate the point made later in the article that actions considered in their day to be terrorism may in fact be acts of Politically motivated violence. To exclude this example would bias the article in favor of the viewpoint of the established order of the period under discussion. --AnthonyQBachler 05:58, 20 November 2003

Sarin gas attack

Was the sarin gas attack performed by japanese individuals? if not then it does not qualify as domestic terrorism, I was under the impression (perhaps mistaken) that it was committed by foreigners to that country. --AnthonyQBachler 03:58, 21 November 2003

Blaming foreigners

"Domestic terrorism is generally unexpected: when a terrorist attack occurs often the first reaction is to presume that it was committed by foreigners."

Is this true? It may have been the case in the Oklahoma bombings, but is it generally the case worldwide? I'd say most states with ongoing terrorism problems are being attacked by domestic opposition or independence movements. ETA, the Khmer Rouge, the IRA (who are (mostly) based in Northern Ireland, hence domestic to the United Kingdom), FARC, etc. -194.205.219.2 12:06, 15 June 2004

Socialist attack

"commission of terrorist or socialist attacks"? I do not think the "or socialist" part belongs to the phrase. What is a "socialist attack" anyway? -148.235.87.217 19:47, 18 April 2005

Do you think it's fair that socialism be linked to terrorism like that? I'm deleting it. -24.5.130.12 19:53, 18 April 2005

Watts riots

How does the Watts riots count as terrorism? -67.70.51.35 22:41, 18 April 2005

garbling the definition

"All attempts or successes at assassinating government heads or officials are clear examples of domestic terrorism." ... So if Castro or Kruschev killed JFK, that would have been domestic terrorism? --Kwantus 04:25, 2005 Apr 20 (UTC)

NPOV of 2nd Amendment Link

At 19:14, 30 September 2005, 67.2.4.137 added the following to this article:

However, some uses of the phrase are inappropriate since the intent may not be to scare the whole "domestic" or nation but a subset like its government from inappropriate activities as in the Oklahoma City Bombing in accordance with the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution.

This strikes me as being questionable NPOV, so I moved it to this talk page pending a concensus.--Kralizec! 00:38, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Terrorism rare?

I think the phrase "domestic terrorism is rare in the United States" should be changed to "domestic terrorism is considered rare in the United States." Certainly with the Unabomber, Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph and numerous abortion clinic bombings, the US is at least on par with other democratic Western countries when it comes to domestic terrorism. -Frasor 15:23, 12 November 2005

Clean-up required

  1. This is not the U.S. Wikipedia, but the English-language Wikipedia. You cannot equate Domestic = U.S.
  2. "Domestic terrorism was considered rare in the United States, by those who do not its history well." That is a point of view, but not an encyclopedic statement.
  3. Calling riots "terrorism" stretches the meaning of the term beyond the reasonable.
  4. What is this nonsense talk about McVeigh being "an Irish-American Catholic from upstate New York". Indeed, there were hardly any Irish-American people from upstate New York that day in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. Give me a break. "Many said that...", "it should be pointed out that...": No, it should not be pointed out.
  5. "Samuel Gompers tearfully insisted..." How is that relevant here?
  6. "John and Jim McNamara, two Irish-American brothers." Presumable Clarence Darrow, who was so quick to realize their guilt, was not Irish-American. I bet he wasn't even a Catholic.

Lambiam 20:52, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Lambiam:

  1. Riots easily amount to terrorism when they are pre-planned, politically inspired and cost hundreds of lives and maining and woundings.
  2. I did NOT say that the McNamara brothers were Catholic!!! (even though they obviously were), but they were Irish-Americans, so your point is either indicative of some bias, or else nonsense, just as your comments re Darrow's ethnic/religious background which were completely irrelevant. I din't call Darrow a Protestant or a Wasp, although he was, b/c it is/was irrelevant.
  3. Samuel Gompers' part was included in the story about the 1910 bombing in the New York Daily News (October 5, 2005), telling a story that probably relatively very few Americans (much less non-US citizens) were/are aware of (including me!!). I didn't know about the incident before I read the paper, and --- you know what -- I really wish I hadn't learned of it, but I did.. And as many people as possible should know about it, and Wikipedia is a fine source.

As far as Timothy McVeigh I will remove the things you referenced, otherwise, there was nothing unfactual, and to my knowledge, nothing unsourced about the piece. However, I always appreciate positive advice and guidance. I never claimed to be perfect.

Yours,

24.136.99.194 21:50, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

  • I reverted all edits made since Demiurge's version. While I appreciate the work by 24.136.99.194, I believe most of the issues regarding cleanup weren't present before Rms125a@hotmail.com's last reversion, veiled as a minor edit. Because of this, I didn't re-add the tag, though a {{globalize}} might not be unwarranted. Deltabeignet 23:10, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Drfat Riots

You left out one important fact in your very brief mention of the Draft Riots, but I added it. That fact cannot be hidden or obscured; it's non-negotiable. Otherwise, it's OK.

The Civil War Draft Riots (1863) -- a period of lethal rioting by Irish immigrants in NYC protesting conscription. Casualties were at least four hundred, outstripping more famous riots such as those in Oakland, Watts, and Attica.

63.164.145.33 07:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

This was reverted dur to seeming OR and a bit POV. --Scaife (Talk) Flag of Austria.svg Don't forget Hanlon's Razor 07:42, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Like I said:

You left out one important fact in your very brief mention of the Draft Riots, but I added it. That fact cannot be hidden or obscured; it's non-negotiable. Otherwise, it's OK.

I fixed it:

Civil War Draft Riots (1863) -- a period of lethal rioting by Irish immigrants in NYC protesting conscription. Casualties were at least four hundred, outstripping more famous riots such as those in Oakland, Watts, and Attica.

I do not accept political correctness being used as a tool for propaganda and censorship.

That the rioters were Irish is a non-negotiable faact. Read up on it if you are not familiar with the circumstances. 63.164.145.33 11:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

London Bombings 7/7/05

I considered adding the London transport network bombings as and example of domestic terrorism, as it's such a hot topic, I thought it best to check here first. They were orchestrated by a British group, by British citizens, and against the British public. If this example can be added, I think it's a more recent, and more widely know example. JeffUK 22:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)