Talk:Lupang Hinirang

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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Lupang Hinirang:


Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
  • Article requests : photos, more sample media, MIDI renditions, vocal/choral renditions based on RA 8491, different versions
  • Stubs : Eliminate the red links with stubs
  • Verify : copyrights status of available LH versions; sources
  • Other : sample music sheets, musical arrangements

Chavacano version[edit]

I have heard that in 1992, former Zamboanga City mayor Vitaliano Agan conducted a contest to translate the anthem into Chavacano. A winner was chosen but his work wasn;t enforced since it was against the law of the use of Filipino...

Can anyone provide me the lyrics of this translation? We have bêen lơoking for this for a very long time na but we can't sêem to find the Chavacano translation chơosen by the Zamboanga government. Thank You Very Much —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChavacanBen (talkcontribs) 14:20, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Patria de Amores el versión chabacano del lupang hinirang.


Tierra Adorada

Hija del sol de Oriente,

Fervor del Corazón

Viví na tuyo pecho.



Patria de amores!

Cuna del heroísmo,

Nunca hay rendí tú,

Al mana invasor.



Na tuyo mar y mana monte,

Y aire y azul cielo.

Tiene esplende el poema y canción

Del amado libertad.



Victoria ardé el chispa

De tuyo bandera.

Nunca mirá apagáo

Su mana estrella y su sol.



Tierra de gloria, del sol y amores

Vida dulce na tuyo abrázada.

Un honor se para con nosotros

Cuando tiene opresor, morí por tú.

De nada. - elculoperezeso — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.54.39.146 (talk) 15:34, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

lyrics in English[edit]

In English, the Philippine National Anthem can be sung as

Land of the Morning
Child of the Sun returning
With fervor burning
Do thee our hearts adore.

....

Land of Love
Beautiful land of love
It is for thee that we suffer and die.

...

That's all I remember, as well as the pride of my mother and father as they sang it for me.

Land of the morning, Child of the sun returning, With fervor burning Thee do our souls adore. Land dear and holy, Cradle of noble heroes. Ne'er shall invaders Trample thy sacred shore. Ever within thy skies and through thy clouds, And oe'r thy hills and sea, Do we behold the radiance Feel the throb of glorious liberty. Thy banner, dear to all our hearts Its sun and star alight O never shall its shinning field Be dimmed by tyrants might. Beautiful land of love, O land of light, In thine embrace 'tis rapture to lie; But it is glory ever, when thou art wronged for us, thy sons to suffer and die.

Of course, singing an English version is illegal (RA 8491, SECTION 36. The National Anthem shall always be sung in the national language within or without the country. The following shall be the lyrics of the National Anthem: [...]), and would open one to public censure (SECTION 48. Failure or refusal to observe the provisions of this Act; and any violation of the corresponding rules and regulations issued by the Office of the President, shall after proper notice and hearing, shall be penalized by public censure which shall be published at least once in a newspaper of general circulation.) see [1]. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 11:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Added the English translation of the current official version...[edit]

To let readers know how different the old English version is. I also changed the very old and incorrect translation of the national anthem's title ('Beloved Land') which I think came to be so due to the following being that title's exact equivalents:
- the title of the most popular Tagalog translation in the 1940's (O Sintang Lupa), or
- the first line of the current official lyrics (Bayang magiliw...), which tends to be colloquially used as the title of the national anthem

I think everyone would agree with me that hinirang does not translate to anything near to the English word 'beloved' — the root word hirang means 'choose' in Tagalog. It has always bugged me that almost every printed English encyclopedia I read translates the title to 'Beloved Land.' Thank God for Wikipedia. dirrtychristian 10:57, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Could anyone add direct Filipino and English translations from Spanish?[edit]

Ambeth Ocampo has written a column about the translations the national anthem, which can be found in one of his books (Aguinaldo's Breakfast?). There, he points out that the second verse of the current English translation is different from that of the original Spanish.

“Hija del sol de Oriente” is literally “daughter of the Orient sun” or “daughter of the sunny Orient”, if I remember right (I don't know that much Spanish). Now we have “Perlas ng Silanganan”, “pearl of the Orient”. "Daughter" to "pearl". That's quite different. Uthanc 14:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Well, here's what babelfish brought up:

Adored earth Daughter of the sun of East, Its ardent fire, In you barking is. Land of loves! Of the heroismo it cradles, the invaders will never tread to you. In your blue sky, in your dawns, your mounts and your sea Esplende and it annoys the poem Of your loved freedom. Your pavilion, that in the combat the victory illuminated, it will never see dull His stars and their sun. Earth of happiness, the sun and loves, In your sweet lap is to live. It is a glory for your children, When they offend to you, by you to die.

Golly. 203.131.137.90 09:47, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's my translation from Spanish. It needs working on though:

Beloved land,
Daughter of the eastern sun
Its ardent fire
Roars inside you

Land of love
Cradle of heroism
The invaders
Will never trample upon you

In your blue sky, in your sunrises
In your hills, and in your sea
Does the poem of your beloved freedom
Shine and resonnate

Your flag, which in battles
victory illuminated,
Your stars and sun
Will never be extinguished.

Land of happiness, of the Sun, and of love,
In your lap it is sweet to live
It is a glory for your children to die for you,
When you are attacked.

--Chris S. 09:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Ligaya>Happiness[edit]

>When someone oppresses you, it is our supereme honor
Shouldn't this be 'When someone oppresses you, it is our supreme honorhappiness' (to die for you)? or is this too awkward?Jondel


Cebuano translation[edit]

Hi all,

I have standardized the spelling of the Cebuano translation and used the version that I have always sung and I have always known to be "The Jess Vestil" version. This is first-hand knowledge; I have schooled during the time when the government of Cebu was still strong against the government of the Philippines and did not bow down to the latter's insistence of the use of the Filipino version as THE official and standard (and after 1998, the only legal) version.

--Bentong Isles 12:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Image:Lupang Hinirang instrumental.ogg[edit]

Merry (Insert Holiday Here). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

hi i just[edit]

I put a link to a youtube file which shows the audiovisual of the Philippine national anthem played during sign-on and sign off Justox dizaola 10:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

While it is important to know that the anthem is played at the start/end of television programming, I am not sure about the copyright of that video. I will not personally remove it, since I put up anthem videos myself on YouTube, but there could be others who could remove the link to the video. However, the video is pretty nice, since I seen it myself a few times. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:13, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Pointers for improvement[edit]

Having edited the entire article myself, here are what I believe the possible improvements that can be done, if we are to promote his article into FA status:

  1. Improve the red links. Naturally ;)
  2. Sheet music (even if only a lead sheet). Since this is a song---and a public domain song, on top of that---it's logical that there should be information on how to sing this song. I'm working on this one, though, so please hang on....
  3. Picture of the Declaration of Independence. Even a scan of the reverse side of the (now-getting-rare but still in circulation) 10 peso bill, with a marching band in the backdrop (I think) would do. IMO, we need proof that there was a marching band when the Kawit declaration happened.
  4. A list of very notable versions in the present time. I am thinking of only the following renditions, because of their significance (we'll need heavy documentation for all these, though):
    1. The Redentor Romero arrangement, originally recorded by the Philippine Philharmonic Orchestra. This is the most popular orchestral version, and is almost always the only version performed by the PPO, the MPO and even by the San Miguel Philharmonic
    2. The Lucio San Pedro arrangement. I know he got some flak for this one, but let's face it, this is one of the more popular arrangements made on this song
    3. The Philippine Centennial arrangement. Significance is historical; this was commissioned during the Philippine Centennial. This is widely published in a book that is currently in circulation at major bookstores nationwide. In addition, this is also the version that is currently being played by some TV stations during sign-on and sign-off. (I verified this by listening to it during a TV network's sign-off with a copy of the sheet music in hand.)

I might add more to this list, so please hang on. In the meantime, please let me know what you think of it. --- Tito Pao 04:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi! I scanned the reverse side of the 5-peso bill. the picture of the Declaration of Independence is there. I also scanned the front side for whatever use it may have. My 5-peso bill is pretty dirty and Im not very good with photoshop so Its just the raw scan of the bill. I also dont know how to upload to wikipedia so its in my photobucket account. http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/matikas0805/ Hope I helped in some small way. Matikas 0805 (talk) 12:44, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


There should be a musical sheet of this article, to serve as reference or guide on how to play or sing the national anthem. I also suggest the the music sheet must be the earliest possible version or copy of the song, or the original one, if its not possible to provide an original copy of the anthem, I also suggest that any musical sheet must be provided for this article. this link i found in the internet could help: [2], thanks. 121.54.2.91 (talk) 08:04, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Move the article[edit]

I am thinking that this article should be moved to National anthem of the Philippines (some other countries are like this). This way, the scope of the article (as it is now) would be in line with title of the article. Do you get what I mean? This article should just be about Lupang Hinirang but instead we are covering a lot more ground here - and appropriately so, because the original national anthem was in Spanish. Furthermore, a lot of translations have been made. I will be moving this article in a few days, but I'd like your input first before doing so. --Chris S. 09:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

"The Star-Spangled Banner" is in it's own article, but I'm OK with a separate National anthem of the Philippines article, to discuss other(?) national anthems of the country had. --Howard the Duck 14:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I would like to keep the article at this name. While this is the official national anthem of the PH, RA 8491 tells us the title is supposed to be Lupang Hinirang. What I would suggest that if an article is written on former anthems, it can be done, but just put them in brief here. I am also thinking about moving the translations to Wikisource and keeping just the current Tagalog, English, Spanish and the former Tagalog version h:ere. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I would like to second User:Zscout370's opinion. In addition, IMO, we should ALL help together to improve or best prepare the present article for Feature Article status. I have started the todo template above. Please fill it in with anything else that is needed by the article for its improvement. --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 19:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I am also going to email [3] to see if we could use the musical notation that he hosts. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
My take: in the vein of the Star Spangled Banner article, retain LH as the article title, and perhaps make "National Anthem of the Philippines" as a redirect. (Or, it could be the other way around, although I think LH should survive as the main article.)
With regard to the translations, the Tagalog, English and Spanish should be retained on the article, while the others should go to Wikisource. The Spanish edition cannot be simply deleted here because it's the original version from which the translations were derived (it is, to me, unthinkable, even if the current version is in Tagalog). The Camilo Osias translation in English, on the other hand, is the first legal and canonical (i.e. official) translation by virtue of a legislated law. The same goes with the Tagalog translation, which was twice made canonical by two different laws (first, by the law during Magsaysay's tenure; second, by virtue of R.A. 8194).
ZScout, I'm volunteering to do the notation...it's actually sitting right in my home computer :) --- Tito Pao 20:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Unlike the Star-Spangled Banner and other anthems, the current version of the national anthem wasn't always the main one, despite what the law says now. There have been others before it, as you all know. A more appropriate analogy would be National Anthem of Russia which goes into detail about former anthems as well as the anthem of the former USSR. I would be in favor of a split of the article. But then, would there be enough material to justify having an article about Lupang Hinirang alone? --Chris S. 21:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem with the Russian anthem (which I brought up to FA, btw), is that there is no official title of anthem. When I do national anthem, I either use the official title or most common title, as in the case of another FA of mine, My Belarusy. LH is the official title given out by the Philippines Government, so I wish to stick with that. Of course, we should add as much non-anthem related information in here, such as the reasons for composition, the mindset of the authors. Then, we could have a section devoting to previous anthems, possible new anthem suggestions and how LH became the anthem. The evolution of LH as the anthem should also be done. I would expand the protocol section. There is plenty what I personally with to do with this article, but I am not sure what tactic of attack I will use. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

YM chat/conference invitation sent[edit]

Please join and respond if you have received it. --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 22:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Yall can go ahead and start without me. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Pinay, please check you mail, thanks :) --- Tito Pao 22:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
We can all set this up at 4:00 to 5:00 PST if you like. Or send suggested time. I am on-line so give me a buzz. --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 22:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I repeat, yall just go ahead and start without me. I won't hurt my feelings. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
As of time stamped after my name in this message, only 2 responses received, and Titopao's earliest available time is 4:00PST. --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 23:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Input from AZ[edit]

Re Lupang Hinirang: The version of the UP Concert Concert Chorus which was arranged by the late Lucio San Pedro(that rubato slow movement at the start, then the fast regular tempo) has been discouraged since it does not reflect the true nature of the anthem. According to a certain critic Orosa Ambeth Ocampo (Dr. Orosa, i forgot his first name) that version "desecrates our national anthem." Even the correct rhythm of a note was also pointed out. (I guess we don't have such liberty as the Americans do to their anthem). Too long to explain the details. Bottomline, that version is not the ideal version to be put as the official national anthem, lest we'll get in trouble too. DECS(Dept. of Education, Culture and Sports) and the LIKHAWIT Enterprises made a version (supposedly the corrected version) arranged by Ed Nepomuceno but I don't know where we can get a recording of this version. I could ask EdNep, the arranger; we were together with the Madrigal Singers.(From AZ Received via email 01-08-07 12:05 AM) --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 20:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Due to the controversy of the UPCC version, the Ed Nep version was recorded by the Madrigal Singers for the celebration of the Philippine Centennial (during Pres. Ramos' time). So, there is a recording of that version. Who has it, that's what I'm trying to find out. I'll email Ed Nep tonight. I will also inquire from Ryan Cayabyab. They might even have a better recording of the anthem with the San Miguel orchestra and choir.(From AZ Received via email 01-08-07 8:59 PM)
Here's EdNep's reply: Hey Frannie!!! Happy New Year! Wala akong copy ng Lupang Hinirang but I always hear it when I listen to GMA radio, AM pa. Alam ko kasi, it was distributed to all movie houses and radio stations during Ramos's time para patugtugin, so I think you will not have any problem in copyrights or whatever...yata ha since public property na yon.. Ngayon kasi GMA na lang ang nagpapatugtog non sa program ni Mike Enriquez in the morning. Great to hear from you Frannie! Kelan mo ako pamamasahihan jan? HEHEHE (From AZ Received via email Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:17:14 -0800 (PST)--Ate Pinay (talkemail) 20:57, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

English translation[edit]

What is the English translation of the phrase "Lupang Hinirang"? --Howard the Duck 04:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I seen it translated as "Chosen land." User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
The Philippines article says "Beloved Land". I'd rather agree with "chosen" since "hinirang" means chose. --Howard the Duck 05:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I also notice the article here has "chosen land" in the lyrics (LH is mentioned in the first sentence, second paragraph). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

"Chosen Land"[edit]

Please read WP:NOT#OR and WP:MADEUP about this kind of translation. There is already an English translation which is more "original" than the Filipino version. Why not delete it? -- 210.213.67.182 15:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

We include amateur translations of other anthems; the official English version is listed below. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Why not put the "official" version on the top and delete the "amateur" version instead? Why there should be two versions? Its confusing! This is the only anthem that has multiple translations in English (and even Filipino)! Although the other Filipino translation is alright since it might be created by experts instead of amateur Wikipedian users who may not have been established their expertise in translation. There is even a contradiction from an amateur Wikipedian user (Chosen Land) and Mr. David Kendall (Beloved Land, please see the link below) in the English translation of the title of the anthem despite for the fact that this "amateur" translation already made a contradiction with the English translation of Senator Camilo Osias and Mary A. Lane. How can you guarantee that this "amateur" translation is the accurate translation of the current Filipino version? Why not just make a "literal" translation out of it, not just an "amateur" and "poetic"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.213.69.221 (talk) 13:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Regarding translations, WP:V#Non-English sources says "Where editors [...], or translate any direct quote, they need to quote the relevant portion of the original text in a footnote or in the article, so readers can check that it agrees with the article content. Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations made by Wikipedia editors." -- Boracay Bill (talk) 05:25, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The Philippine flag is wrong.[edit]

As far as I remember the sun on the Philippine flag never had a face. Please replace the illustration in the article with the correct one. -Concerned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.196.194 (talk) 04:36, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

The sun had a face back in Aguinaldo's time. --seav 05:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Assuming that to be true, ither way seems legally OK to me (speaking as a non-Filipino, non-lawyer, and non-Filipino-lawyer). RA8491 says, in part:
A. Design of the National Flag
SECTION 4. The flag of the Philippines shall be blue, white and red with an eight-rayed golden-yellow sun and three five-pointed stars, as consecrated and honored by the people.
It looks like there is some room for argument either that (A) the face is disallowed because it is not mentioned or (B) the face is allowed (perhaps even arguably required) because the version of the flag which includes the face was "consecrated and honored by the people." -- Boracay Bill (talk) 02:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
(further info) Check section 7 of this page. That source may not meet WP:RS criteria, however. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 05:30, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
I think the flag, while we know isn't following RA 8491, is fine to stay here. I would suggest, however, to replace the flag image in the future with sheet music or something related to the anthem. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

"Official lyrics" section[edit]

One wonders about the naming of this section. "Official" in what sense? Surely not in the sense of RA8491, the Flag and Heraldic code of the Philippines, Section 36 of which makes it very clear that the only officially recognized lyrics the Filipino lyrics. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 00:56, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Look under the lyrics, there is a note already denoting this fact. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:20, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

It seems clumsy, though, for a section titled "Official lyrics" to present three versions with a note explaining that two of the three versions presented are not official after all. Suggest retitling the section "Lyrics" and changing the note to explain that only the filipino-language version is considered "Official" by the RP Government.

Also, the The original Spanish text: Filipinas section presents a fourth version and explains: "became official in 1899", and the Direct translation of Lupang Hinirang in English: Beloved Country section presents a fifth version and explains: "Although not the official canonical version ...". The article also presents a sixth, seventh, and eighth version, but without mentioning "Official" in connection with those three. I don't follow all of this, and wonder whether there may be several alternative definitions of the word "Official" in play here. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 03:04, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Apparent problems[edit]

Recent changes to the text of some of the anthem versions in this article popped this up on my watchlist. I did a quick check against this page on the msc.edu website, which cites Sonya Zaide's book The Philippine National Flag and Anthemas its source, and noticed the following:

  • Under Official lyrics, the filipino language version differs from the version mandated here in Republic Act No. 8491 as follows:
This article RA8491 difference
Bayang magiliw Bayang magiliw, comma
Perlas ng Silanganan, Perlas ng Silanganan comma
Alab ng puso Alab ng puso, comma
Sa dibdib mo'y buhay. Sa Dibdib mo'y buhay. capitalization
blank line no blank line blank line?
Lupang hinirang, Lupang Hinirang, capitalization
Duyan ka ng magiting, Duyan ka ng magiting,
Sa manlulupig, Sa manlulupig,
'Di ka pasisiil. Di ka pasisiil. single-quote
blank line no blank line blank line?
Sa dagat at bundok, Sa dagat at bundok,
Sa simoy at sa langit mong bughaw, Sa simoy at sa langit mong bughaw,
May dilag ang tula at awit
Sa paglayang minamahal.
May dilag ang tula,

At awit sa paglayang minamahal.

line break, capitalization, comma
blank line no blank line blank line?
Ang kislap ng watawat mo'y Ang kislap ng watawat mo'y
Tagumpay na nagniningning, Tagumpay na nagniningning,
Ang bituin at araw niya Ang bituin at araw niya, comma
Kailan pa ma'y 'di magdidilim. Kailan pa ma'y di magdidilim, single-quote
blank line no blank line blank line?
Lupa ng araw, ng luwalhati't pagsinta, Lupa ng araw ng luwalhati't pagsinta,
Buhay ay langit sa piling mo; Buhay ay langit sa piling mo, comma vs. semicolon
Aming ligaya, na 'pag may mang-aapi Aming ligaya na pag may mang-aapi, comma
Ang mamatay nang dahil sa 'yo. Ang mamatay ng dahil sa iyo. text, single-quote
I'm not a Filipino-speaker, and don't know whether those differences are substantive.


  • Under Official lyrics, the english version headed Unofficial English translation is footnoted as follows:

This translation is not intended to be sung, as the words do not correspond with the music. However, it is recommended for accurate translation of the current and only official Filipino version of the Philippine national anthem into other language editions of Wikipedia.

In addition, this text differs from that of the Philippine Hymn of 1938, since the latter is a direct translation from the original Spanish version Filipinas.

The translation is not attributed and I'm guessing that it was done by some WP editor. WP:V says, "Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations made by Wikipedia editors."
  • Under Earlier versions, the version headed Filipinas differs from the version [here on the msc.edu site as follows:
This article msc.edu difference
Tierra adorada Tierra adorada
Hija del sol de Oriente, Hija del sol de Oriente comma
Su fuego ardiente
en ti latiendo está.
Su fuego ardiente en ti latiendo esta. linebreak, accent
¡Tierra de amores! Patria de amores! text
Del heroísmo cuna, Del heroismo cuna,
Los invasores Los invasores
No te hallarán jamás. No te hallaran jamas. accent
En tu azul cielo, en tus auras, En tu azul cielo, en tus auras,
En tus montes y en tu mar, En tus montes y en tu mar comma
Esplende y late el poema Esplende y late el poema
De tu amada libertad. De tu amada libertad.
Tu pabellón, que en las lides Tu pabellon, que en las lides
La victoria iluminó, La victoria ilumino comma
No verá nunca apagados No vera nunca apagados accent
Sus estrellas ni su sol. Sus estrellas y su sol.
Tierra de dichas, de sol y amores, Tierra de dichas, del sol y amores,
En tu regazo dulce es vivir. En tu regazo dulce es vivir.
Es una gloria para tus hijos, Es una gloria para tus hijos,
Cuando te ofenden, por ti morir. Cuando de ofenden, por ti morir.
Also, the arrangement of blank lines looks different between the two versions. I'm not a Spanish-speaker, and don't know whether the differences are substantive.
  • Under Earlier versions, the english language version headed "The Philippine Hymn" disagrees with the version on msc.edu. The difference involves a grammatical error in the version in this article. The word tyrants is used as the possessive form of the noun tyrant and, as such, should correctly read "tyrant's" as it does on the msc.edu website. This article asserts regarding the version it presents: "translation was made by Senator Camilo Osias and Mary A. Lane and was made official by an act of the Philippine Congress in 1938", and I don't know whether the translations made by those persons agree with the text presented in this article or not. I believe that the act of congress referred to here is Commonwealth Act No. 382, which this page says was signed on September 5, 1938, but I have not been able to find an online copy of that act. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 04:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
For the Filipino lyrics, just stick with RA 8491. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

English version[edit]

Considering WP:NONENG ("Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations made by Wikipedia editors"), how about using a cite-supported outside translation rather than edit-warring about the details of WP:OR translations by WP editors?

Here are a couple of cites of pages claiming to be republishing one particular apparently widely-published translation ("Translated from the Spanish by Camilo Osias and M.A.L. Lane; taken from Camilo Osias, Manlapaz Publishing Co., 1971"): [4], [5]. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 11:42, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

English translation[edit]

Considering Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English sources ("Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations made by Wikipedia editors."), it would be preferable, instead of providing an apparent original research english translation, to provide an english translation sourced from a third party. A translation which exists here might do, even though it might or might not not be an earlier version of the apparent original research translation by WP editors which is presently presented in this article. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 06:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I remember drafting the version as seen on the link you provided above, and in fact it is almost (if not entirely) identical with the first-ever edit of the Lupang Hinirang article that included the literal translation of the only official (Filipino) version of the anthem in English. They just copied it from Wikipedia itself, as prior to Wikipedia, the only popular English translation lying around was the American-era version. But I agree to have it changed to this, as upon seeing that version once more, it seems to me that the current translation has become less faithful to the meaning and poetry of the Filipino version:
Official Filipino lyrics Current English translation My original English translation Notes

Bayang magiliw
Perlas ng Silanganan,
Alab ng puso
Sa dibdib mo'y buhay.

Lupang hinirang,
Duyan ka ng magiting,
Sa manlulupig,
'Di ka pasisiil.

Sa dagat at bundok,
Sa simoy at sa langit mong bughaw,
May dilag ang tula at awit
Sa paglayang minamahal.

Ang kislap ng watawat mo'y
Tagumpay na nagniningning,
Ang bituin at araw niya
Kailan pa ma'y 'di magdidilim.

Lupa ng araw, ng luwalhati't pagsinta,
Buhay ay langit sa piling mo;
Aming ligaya, na 'pag may mang-aapi
Ang mamatay nang dahil sa 'yo.

Beloved country,
Pearl of the Orient,
The heart's fervor,
In your chest is ever alive.

Chosen land,
You are the cradle of the brave.
To the conquerors,
You shall never surrender.

Through the seas and mountains,
Through the air and your blue sky,
There is splendor in the poem and song
For beloved freedom.

The sparkle of your flag
Is shining victoriously.
Its stars and sun
Shall forever never dim.

Land of the sun, of glory and our affections,
Life is heaven in your arms;
It is our pleasure, when there are oppressors,
To die for of you.

Beloved country,
Pearl of the Orient,
The heart's fervor,
In your bosom is ever alive.

Chosen land,
You are the cradle of the brave.
To the conquerors,
You shall never surrender.

Through the seas and mountains,
Through the air and your azure skies,
There is splendor in the poem and song
For dear freedom.

The sparkle of your flag
Is shining victory.
Its stars and sun
Shall forever never dim.

Land of the sun, of glory and our affections,
Life is heaven in your arms;
It is our pleasure, when there are oppressors,
To die for you.

  • "Bosom" for me seems to be more poetic, and less blatantly literal.
  • Again, it's just a matter of judgement - to me, "azure" seems more poetic.
  • The Tagalog word mahal, used as a verb, can not only mean "to love"

(as most modern Filipinos equate it to English), but also "to cherish,"
"to treat with care," "to hold dear." In the lyrics' context, minamahal
certainly means more "dear" or "cherished" than "beloved."

  • Tagumpay na nagniningning means "victory that is shining/radiant,"

with tagumpay ("victory") not being used as an adverb ("victoriously").
So the present translation is not only inaccurate, it also is awkward.

  • The last point is just a minor error, made when "for" was replaced by

"because of" and then reverted to "for" again but without deleting "of."

--- Dakilang Isagani (talk) 04:02, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not about original research opinions regarding poetic merit held by one or another Wikipedia editor. It is about verifiability. Find an authoritative source, quote it verbatim, and cite the source. If equally authoritative sources conflict significantly, point out the conflicts and cite the conflicting sources. Note that the links in the foregoing are to Wikipedia policy pages on content and style. Also see the Wikipedia:Citing sources guideline.
I spent some time yesterday grubbing around for decent sources, and came up relatively dry. I'm limited to searching online sources, though. Someone with access to a good library could probably search out better sources than I can. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 00:09, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't challenge the fact that in order to be a stronger article the English translation of the official Filipino version needs an authoritative source. If I had found it, would have gladly placed a proper citation. But given the scarcity (or complete lack) of "preferred" published material containing an English translation of the only official version of the anthem (Why would a Filipino author even bother translating an anthem into a foreign language when it already had a version in that language? Or why would a foreign author seek to have the Filipino version translated into English when a former official translation already exists?), and the ability of Filipino Wikipedians at translation and determining whether a translation is accurate anyway (attested by the fact that the basic elements of my initial contribution largely remain), I think it's fair to say that it has stood the test of time to be something that can be considered a fairly good translation that can be taken by editors from other languages for translation into theirs. I only edit the translation if something grossly incorrect (such as the change regarding "pasisiil") comes up - notice that I still have largely exercised restraint and let fellow Wikipedians help improve the translation.
One can post a translation on a blog and have it linked to this page then present it as an "authoritative" source, and that's completely legitimate - but it seems to me that presenting it for others to review, assess and verify themselves using their own understanding of the Filipino language makes it somehow of a lesser quality? I don't think my translation counts as original research - I am neither including "unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas" nor am I advancing a "position." The only way a translation can be verified is by checking bilingual dictionaries (but even doing so presents the challenge of explaining the grammar and context of word use if the exact form of the verb does not appear with examples for English speakers to verify), and I would not like to fill the translation with citation links to online Filipino-English dictionary entries for siil or tagumpay with lengthy explanations in the footnotes as to why something should mean one way and not another because of the affix used, or the context of the phrase. --Dakilang Isagani (talk) 06:51, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
A couple of things in response:
  1. "One can post a translation on a blog and have it linked to this page then present it as an 'authoritative' source, and that's completely legitimate source"
    No. See WP:SELFPUB, "Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published. For this reason, self-published books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, knols, forum postings, and similar sources are largely not acceptable to cite in Wikipedia." and, in a footnote, "'Blogs' in this context refers to personal and group blogs. Some newspapers host interactive columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control. Where a news organization publishes the opinions of a professional but claims no responsibility for the opinions, the writer of the cited piece should be attributed (e.g., "Jane Smith has suggested ..."). Posts left by readers may never be used as sources.)"
  2. "I only edit the translation if something grossly incorrect (such as the change regarding 'pasisiil') comes up ..."
    I don't speak Tagalog, but I went back and took a look at that change. The change altered the translation of "Sa manlulupig, 'Di ka pasisiil." from "to the conquerors, You shall never win." to "To the conquerors, You shall never surrender." That is a big change in meaning. I struggled with it quite a bit before coming to what I think is an understanding of it. Again, I don't speak Tagalog but I do see that the changed-from version only makes sense if it is taken as being directed to the would-be conqerer, and that must be incorrect as the anthem is written as if it is directed to the country. The changed-to version makes sense in that context, imploring the country never to surrender to would-be conqerors. Your edit summary said " the word 'pasisiil' means to let oneself be defeated, or to surrender; it does not mean 'to win'." I haven't been able to find a dictionary definition of pasisiil,and my Eng-Tag dictionary says "Surrender: v. to give up; give one-self up; yield: Sumikò,isukò, Magpahuli, pahuli and n. the act of surrendering: Pagsukò,, Pagpapahuli". The closest I've found to "pasisiil" is siíl, siniíl adj. Oppressed by a ruler or superior. I'm not qualified to nitpick the translation, but I'm bothered by the fact that I am unable to verify it. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 04:39, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing up the self-publication issue. I was so perplexed as to how other anthem entries could get away with citing just a blog entry (in the case of Jana Gana Mana) or none at all (like for Al-Nasheed Al-Watani) for their English translations, yet a translation that has gained a bit of currency, at least in the internet realm, is inferior. I found at least four other (personal) webpages that use the original translation I posted.
Regarding pasisiil: the "you" in the English translation (as well as "your" in the Philippine Hymn of 1938) refer to the personified country, and not the conquerors. In the official Filipino version, the only pronoun in that line is "ka," which refers to the personified country, as the conquerors were never 'talked to' in the song, only 'talked about.' Filipino is a bit complex with its verbs, and while not claiming to be an authoritative grammarian or linguist, I do know what the form pasisiil means, and it certainly is not "to win." The prefix pa- can be explained better by more qualified linguists with proper linguistic terminology, but here's my attempt: when added to a root word, it changes the verb from being active to passive:
talo = lose; pa + talo = let lose
kain = eat; pa + kain = let eat
siil = subjugate, oppress; pa + siil = let be subjugated, let be oppressed
The extra syllable (pasisiil) is just a reduplication of the first syllable of the rootword, and it is done to change the tense of the verb. The reason why the line is constructed as "You shall never surrender" instead of "You shall not let yourself be oppressed" is a matter of style and function. The latter is unwieldy and can become a source of confusion should editors of other language editions translate the anthem, and it was exactly for the purpose of translation into other Wikipedia editions that I posted my version so that these new translations can be as truthful to the official lyrics as possible. -- Dakilang Isagani (talk) 10:25, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Ain't original research grand? -- Boracay Bill (talk) 03:55, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I think we should ask the community at WP:OR regarding Wikipedian-done translations. Heck, we translate a lot of articles between Wikipedia editions in different languages with nary an eyebrow raised (of course these are two different, though similar things). I guess a lengthy footnote regarding the translation (and the fact that it's not a professionally-done translation) would be in order at least. --seav (talk) 04:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Any decent Filipino grammarian asked about "tagumpay na nagniningning" (literally, "victory that shines") would say that "shining victoriously" ("matagumpay na nagniningning" in Filipino/Tagalog) is an improper translation of that phrase. The only things I changed with the latest edit I made were this line, and the removal of the stray "of" in the last line. I stand by this edit, and it was made in good faith to keep the integrity of the translation and the article, as these are not mere opinions. We should ask the community to clarify: by having this translation, are we really using "unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas" or "advancing a position"? I am admittedly not a professional translator but I do have a very good command of both languages, and I find it just a tiny bit frustrating (and to be completely honest, even insulting) that some are making grand and harsh judgments regarding a translation that I thought effectively translated the only official version of the national anthem into a less complicated form of English that editors from other Wikipedia language editions can use. All edits that have been made since my initial contribution by other editors have remained apart from the three ones that I chose to replace/omit because they were grossly ungrammatical or mistranslated: "'Di ka pasisiil" ("You shall never winsurrender") and the two mentioned above. Should the community decide that having such a translation is improper in a Wikipedia page, then by all means let's just remove it (along with unreferenced translations of other anthems, as well as those with non-reliable web references), because frankly from this side of the fence it pretty much feels like such contributions are not welcome here. ——Dakilang Isagani (talk) 07:48, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Also please note the final sentence of WP:NONENG: "Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations made by Wikipedia editors." -- Boracay Bill (talk) 01:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
So what happens now? Have we really come to terms with anything other than pointing out what's been discussed before — that there is a dearth of published material on the English translation of the sole official version of the anthem? --Dakilang Isagani (talk) 10:28, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
And it says there that the original language text should be included so readers can judge for themselves (and article does include the original text). Also note that reliable translations are simply preferred and that self-translations are not disallowed. The "official" English translation seems to be a poetic translation and not a grammatical/literal translation. --seav (talk) 02:05, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
See my suggestion at Wikipedia talk:No original research#Translations. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 02:45, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
Okay, that's great. Let's start now and get this over with, shall we? What are the points of contention in the translation? Also, since my first post has been edited numerous times, to whom do we attribute it now? ---Dakilang Isagani (talk) 04:34, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
My take on it, if my suggestion mentioned above is accepted (the one comment thus far says, "looks good"), would be to arrive at a consensus-supported translation here, attribute it to "Wikipedia editors" in the articvle's Reference section, and deal with the inevitable edits by reverting them and demanding consensus for change on this talk page. If a translation supported by a reliable source comes to light, that would supersede the "Wikipedia editors" translation. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 06:03, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I understood the post you made and I concur with what was posted. It's a very sensible idea, so why not start with it now? There's certainly no harm in trying that. Let's arrive at a consensus now. Anyone want to start pointing out contentious items in the current translation? --- Dakilang Isagani (talk) 08:32, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Would anyone mind start pointing out areas of contention within the English translation of the current Filipino version of the anthem? (As well as possible suggestions to improve it?) I suggest we don't stall this. --- Dakilang Isagani (talk) 04:31, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Martin Nievera's rendition[edit]

The anthem has been sung in different ways before, but Martin Nievera's artistic interpretation during the Pacquiao vs. Hatton match has sparked a veritable deluge of news about the incident. I'm collecting here links to news articles and columns discussing the event for possible future inclusion into the article. --seav (talk) 14:59, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Original lyrics by José Palma[edit]

Finally found a published source for the orginal Spanish lyrics in this 1912 book by José Palma:

I have put the lyrics in the article. Mk32 (talk) 05:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

CA382[edit]

In this edit, I just removed a footnote asserting that the lyrics in the section headed "Official Commonwealth-era English version: The Philippine Hymn (1938)" are "Official lyrics, according to CA 382". After digging around a bit, I found http://www.angelfire.com/me4/francute/consti2.htm (not a great source, but the best I found), which quotes CA382 as follows:

Com. Act 382, Sept. 5, 1938
 
COMMONWEALTH ACT NO. 382
 
AN ACT TO ADOPT THE ORIGINAL AUTHENTIC FORM OF THE PHILIPPINE NATIONAL ANTHEM AND TO APPROPRIATE FUNDS FOR ITS PRINTING AND FREE DISTRIBUTION.
 
                To preserve the musical adaptation and motive in the original authentic composition of the Philippine National Anthem as set by its author, Julian Felipe, and to attain uniform performance thereof in the Philippines:
 
Be it enacted by the National Assembly of the Philippines:
 
                Sec. 1.  The musical arrangement and composition of the Philippine National Anthem as set by its author, Julian Felipe, is adopted.
                Sec. 2.  There is appropriated, out of the unappropriated funds in the National Treasury, the sum of five hundred pesos for the preparation, printing and free distribution of copies of the Philippine National Anthem as adjusted to its original authentic outline. 
                Sec. 3.  The National Library of the Philippines is entrusted with the accomplishment hereof.
                Sec. 4.  This Act shall take effect on its approval.
                Approved, September 5, 1938.

Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:54, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Official status of The Philippine Hymn[edit]

In this edit, I just made a change to article assertions regarding the official status of The Philippine Hymn. However, I now notice my earlier comment in the #CA382 section above which brings not only my change but the article assertion re this which preceded my change. I'm now removing article content which reads

The "Philippine Hymn" was legalised on December 5, 1938 by Commonwealth Act No. 382.[1]

  1. ^ "Philippines". nationalanthems.info. External link in |publisher= (help)

and moving it here for reconsideration.

I now see that http://www.angelfire.com/me4/francute/consti2.htm, mentioned in the #CA382 section above, contradicts the source on which I relied there in what it purports to be a direct requote of CA382 (you'll need to text search within that page to find the requote). So, we appear to have two outside sources of less than gold-standard reliability which contradict one another regarding this. I have not been able to resolve this, I don't have time to pursue it further at present, and I am pretty much limited to online sources in any case. I'm hoping some editor with access to better sources will be able to resolve this. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 03:44, 2 July 2013 (UTC) ───────────────────────── I was in Ermita today on other matters, and I stopped in at the National Library and got a copy of RA382. I have placed a transcription of this on Wikisource at wikisource:Commonwealth Act No. 382. Following on discussion above and on information contained in CA382, I have boldly rewritten parts of this article in this edit. I think my changes are well supported, but some further tweaking may be helpful. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 19:57, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Which song has the right tempo?[edit]

At the National Historical Commission of the Philippines I found several recordings provided by DepEd that I uploaded to Wikicommons (Ph Gov work and therefore no copyright issues). However, the songs are a different tempo from the one currently in the infobox template. Which is the "right" tempo? Which recording should we highlight in the infobox? There are instrumental and sung versions as well as full orchestrations and a simple piano melody. I favor linking to two versions -- the tenor solo version so that people can hear how it sounds sung and I think the tenor sounds the clearest and is easiest to understand; and the piano so that people can hear the simple melody. However both may not be the "right" tempo. See the Commons Category on the right. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 13:49, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

A couple of points
  • First, I am doubtful about "Ph Gov work and therefore no copyright issues". It does not follow from your having obtained the recordings from the NHI that the NHI holds copyright for the recordings. I have never purchased an audio recording from the NHI, but I have purchased a number of books from them and most of those contained copyright notices in which others asserted copyright rights. I looked at some of the material in that commons cat (not at all of it, due to current internet connectivity difficulties) and see that some of the pieces there are said to be in the public domain, some are said to have been provided by the US govt, etc. Some items there uploaded by you say, e.g., "Courtesy of the Department of Education, Government of the Philippines, via the National Historical Commission of the Philippines, Government of the Philippines. ...", but I'm doubtful that this implies copyright ownership by the NHI.
  • Second, re tempo, Section 20 of RA8491 says, "The observance of the flag ceremony in official or civic gatherings shall be simple and dignified and shall include the playing or singing of the anthem in its original Filipino lyrics and march tempo." I'm not sure how to interpret this, given the info from the article that the piece was originally written in 1898 as an instrumental (apparently in a slow tempo) and that Spanish lyrics added in 1899 were translated into Tagalog in the 1940s, into Pilipino in 1956, and revised in the 1960s into the RA8491 lyrics. Presumably the tempo was sped up at some point during that process. Section 37 of RA8491 says, "The rendition of the National Anthem, whether played or sung, shall be in accordance with the musical arrangement and composition of Julian Felipe.", but that does not seem to describe common practice today and may conflict with section 20. I've seen comments on the web that the piece was originally in 2/4 and is now performed in 4/4 (see e.g., [6]).
  • Third, I'm neither a Filipino nor a musician (that is probably obvious).
Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
My understanding that the recordings are owned by DepEd and provided to the NHCP for distribution to the general public, and this is what "courtesy of DepEd" means, which are the words taken from the icon on the NHCP's home page. The word "copyright" or "ownership" is not used nor is it said explicitly that it is "OK to copy." "Courtesy of DepEd" means however "OK to copy", as I understand the words. I am bolstered in my confidence of my understanding by the fact that it makes sense for DepEd to make recordings such as these for use by schools and others and that it makes sense of UST to offer its musicians for this public service. I have further confidence that the NHCP would not provide copies so prominently on home page unless we are allowed to use the recordings as needed. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 12:29, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
No further comments and so I will leave it for now. I did find a reference to tempo in this article from ABS-CBN Arnel Pineda’s version of RP anthem criticized which ends with:

The NHI earlier noted that if properly sung with a two-fourths beat and 100 metronomes, the national anthem should last 53 seconds. Pineda’s version was 89 seconds long....Singers like Sarah Geronimo, Lani Misalucha and Kyla, whose versions of the anthem at different Pacquiao matches had lasted for over a minute, have also been criticized by the NHI for turning the national anthem into a ballad.

The U.S. Navy's instrumental is longer than 53 seconds while the tenor rendition lasts 53 seconds if you take out the flourishes at the beginning. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 07:52, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Music & Tempo section[edit]

Inspired by the discussion above, I created a subsection on music and tempo to parallel the lyrics section because the tempo has been one of the controversies surrounding the anthem and there was some good sources on the tempo and the controversies. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 08:28, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Revisionism with "Filipino" replacing "Tagalog"[edit]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the historical revisionist ediring replacing the name of the Tagalog language in this article with the name of the Filipino language, as in this and earlier edits. At the time the lyrics were written, of course, the Tagalog language did exist and there was no language called "Filipino". As I understand it, the earlier Tagalog and later Filipino languages are not de-jure identical, but may or may not be de-facto identical. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 12:41, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

suggest to delete "misheard lyrics" section[edit]

after all, it's a song, and like any other song people tend to introduce their own small changes, either due to forgetfulness or outbursts of creativity. does wikipedia really want to list the 20 most common variations in the lyrics of every single song it covers? or is there some justification why this song should be treated differently from others? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.238.175.48 (talk) 23:01, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

"Tagalog" vs. "Filipino" as language name[edit]

This edit, which changed Filipino to Tagalog in a number of places, caught my eye. No edit summary was provided, but it occurs to me that the change might be justified for anghem versions prior to February 12, 1998 when RA8491 beccame law (see [7]). RA849a says that the anthem must always be sung in the national language. If this nit is to be picked in this article, some clarification ought to be provided. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:10, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

English literal translation of Tagalog version[edit]

Where is literal English translation of lyrics? I guess English version lyrics of 1938 is different from literal translation of current Tagalog version. So you should write literal English translation of Tagalog version.--Propatriamori (talk) 00:11, 9 October 2019 (UTC)